I used to identify myself as a maleist. That is, I believed that the rights of men were being whittled away by American women. I believed that we were raising a generation of men to be pussies. We were stamping out natural male instincts in an attempt to keep them subdued. We were telling American men that they should be ashamed of their sex and instincts.
I’m sure Fight Club had something to do with this.
I don’t identify as a maleist anymore. I find myself thinking these thoughts from time to time. I realize that they are misguided. But, they’re still lingering.
I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but….
My wife and I have an okay marriage. We’ve been together for 8 years. We don’t hate each other. We’re not madly in love anymore, but we’ve got something that is positive and works. Our kids are amazing and smart. She’s an incredible mother. I’m a suitable father. That’s life.
She gets upset with me because of my inability to be intimate.
Not the way you’re thinking. I’m always ready for sex. It’s in the way that she likes.
I shy away from physical contact and heartfelt discussions… sober anyways.
Sometimes, when I’m home, I’ll do a chore or job or make breakfast in bed or dinner for the kids or vacuum a room or clean her car and present it to her like a caveman with game. She’ll thank me and move on with her life. Later that night I’ll make a feeble attempt at sex. She’ll rebuff me and I’ll get angry.
“I DID THAT THING! FOR YOU!” I’ll say.
Then we’ll argue.
I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…
My mother gave my brothers and I up when I was 10. We went to live with my father and his new wife. She was only 26 years old with three brand new, and heavily damaged boys to raise. I took out a lot of anger on her. I thought that she had ruined my family.
I take that back.
I wanted to believe that she had ruined my family. But she didn’t. She saved it.
I still treated her like she would give up on us at any moment. Right up to the moment I left the house for good.
I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…
I wish I could explain everything that goes through the mind of a young man. There is SO MUCH SELF DOUBT AND ANGST!
I spent my college years in the Navy. Specifically, I spent my adult formative years on a submarine with 120 men. We used to sit out under the ocean and talk about everything. Especially women. Most of us were terrified of them. Women were such a mystery. So soft and nice and sweet and… We knew that we were good guys. We knew that if a girl got to know us, she’d like us. We knew she’d sleep with us.
Sleep with us.
Sleep with us.
Cause we were good guys.
I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…
I work in an office. My wife doesn’t. She raises the kids and does the housework and pays the bills and runs the family.
I get the biggest piece of pizza when we order out.
If we go to a party, I assume that she’ll drive home because I’m going to be too drunk.
When I get home I’ll drop my clothes on the ground or pile them on my dresser or on the kitchen table or on the bed or anywhere but where they belong. I’ll ask “What’s for dinner?”. I’ll commandeer the TV. I’ll ignore the kids. I’ll surf the internet.
I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…
I truly believe that my wife is better at life than I am. I respect her ability to teach our family about life.
She’s helped change me from a card carrying Republican to a bleeding heart liberal and convinced me that I did it on my own.
She’s pushed me into a side career that I can’t imagine doing without.
Hell, she dresses me for chrissakes.
And I have a hard time listening to her stories or watching her shows or reading her books or…
I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…
I think I am.
Rape Culture exists. As much as I have been avoiding saying it for years. It exists.
I’m not guilty of beating my wife. I’m not guilty of rape. I’m not guilty of shooting a sorority.
I am guilty of thinking in a manner that promotes one sex over the other… even during my “enlightened” years.
I will never understand the mind of a woman. I don’t know what it’s like to walk down the streets of Cambridge alone at night as a woman. I will never know what it’s like to have a drunk 230 pound man angry at me cause he’s not getting laid.
Vanessa, I’m sorry.
I don’t consider myself a misogynist…. but….
I’m trying to change.
Thank you, Nate, for working to change.
This was really amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much for trying to change. Every woman appreciates this, and I know your wife appreciates it the most.
Thank you so much for this post.
Amazing post. Thank you.
Very moving. Very meaningful.
Thank you. Waking up to our internalized privilege isn’t easy. I admire your bravery and willingness to do so.
Left me speechless. You presented real life, and thank you for honesty. Which is never easy, but painful. It’s when growth happens, though, when we see the ugly self facing us back.
Reblogged this on ΕΝΙΑΙΟ ΜΕΤΩΠΟ ΠΑΙΔΕΙΑΣ.
Reblogged this on meet me at the pear tree.
Good stuff, man! I’m always impressed with what you write!
One thing that’s worth considering too is that people communicate their love and want love communicated to them in different ways, and I think I see that in one of the interactions you describe… I recently encountered the notion of “love languages” (Words of affirmation, Acts of Service, Receiving Gifts, Quality Time, Physical Touch). It’s possible that you give via acts of service and want physical touch in return?
I’ve found it useful to have conversations about which ways I tend to give affection and which ways I hear best in return, and how my partner works in that regard as well. The more obvious benefit is both participants in such a conversation can learn by which method they should communicate affection that their partner will hear most clearly. The less obvious benefit, but I think it’s an important one, is both can also learn to take in the affection their partner is sending in their direction that they may be missing. “You mean you love me when you say that. I’m going to listen for that now” can be every bit as powerful as “I’m telling you I love you in the way that works best for you so you’ll hear me more clearly.” Both together ain’t so bad either…
Even if he’s that kind of person, who does physical acts of service and wants physical touch in return? Reverse the genders and tell me if your partner washing the car after weeks and weeks of leaving dirty socks on the floor and not really doing much of anything around the house, even though (1) they make at least a third of the mess versus you and the kids and (2) you don’t have TIME to help them make monetary income since you’re stuck with all the housework… and then they came around expecting sexual attention, tell me you’d really feel like it.
Also, sex works better when it’s spontaneous and mutually desired on both sides rather than being expected as a tit for tat. No pun intended.
My primary point in my initial comment is the conversation is worth having generally, and from what I’d read it may be useful to Nate and his partner in particular. My apologies if my comment came across as prescriptive; I was trying to keep my language speculative and vague because I have no idea how Nate most clearly hears affection and most easily gives it. In my experience, for some people sex has nothing to do with an expression of love, while for others sex and expressions of love are tightly integrated. I get what you’re saying about the swapping of gender, but I’d also like to avoid assumptions there as well… Does Nate do nothing and then do one thing and expect compensation? Does he totally hold up his end chore-wise but do something he thinks of as special and expect compensation? Does he either hold up his end, or not, and then do whatever thing he does as a special thing that supplements his regular doing of chores as an expression of love, and then feel hurt because when he expresses love in the way that suits him he doesn’t get an expression of love in return, and then that hurt turns to anger? I have no idea, feel it’s too personal to ask in this forum, and am unwilling to speculate. Also, I don’t need to swap genders… I’ve been in more than one relationship where my partner expected sex from me (and yes, a female partner), and I felt it was an imposition either because I felt it had nothing to do with me personally and was just the scratching of an itch, she wanted it more frequently than I did and I was too well sated in that regard to be in the mood, or I didn’t feel connected to her because my emotional needs weren’t being addressed and my physical attention was being demanded. In that context, sometimes I put out anyway, and sometimes that’s because it’s easier than the alternative, and sometimes it’s because I care enough to do that for her even though I’m not particularly in the mood.
In my experience, sex works best for each person in whatever unique way it works for them. Some like spontaneous, some like routine, some like some combination of the two… But again, my comment wasn’t about sex per se… It was about the communication of affection, with an acknowledgment that the giving of services and the receiving of physical affection may be part of that because of what I’d read, and that a conversation that may not have been had is one that’s worth having.
I am deeply saddened by some of what I read, but in awe of your bravery in writing it and your honest desire to change.
Perhaps I am wrong to write this, but you don’t exist in a vacuum. If your wife wasn’t okay with your clothes going wherever, and the other things you listed, she has a choice too. She can leave it there, she can nudge you toward more changes (since she has changed you in other ways – your words). She can say NO, I want to watch “insert show here.” She makes a choice to exist in the status quo that is on her, not on you. I don’t think it makes you a misogynist because you are at work and she is at home and she fixes most of the meals. It makes sense – I have friends who are stay at home dads and they fix most of the meals because they are home and their wives are out in the workforce.
Don’t conflate fixing meals versus picking up someone’s socks when they know damn well where the hamper is.
I’m not married at this point, though I’m in a logistics situation very like marriage, and am playing the SAHM role. I’d be fine with being expected to clean house if others would not make that job more difficult for me than it has to be. Vacuuming the floor should not include picking up everyone’s crap first. Don’t expect me to wash all the dishes after you cook if you won’t return the favor. Et cetera.
His behavior in this regard sucks no matter what his wife chooses. Because she’s got exactly three options. She can make a fight out of it, which will eventually lead to divorce, or she can choose to live in filth, which is not good for the children (or the adults). Or she can suffer in silence as too many of us wind up doing.
If you are not willing to take part in your home’s upkeep no matter the working situation, go live in a cave.
Or, she can let him know that it is an issue and deal with it like an adult. If she is not bringing it up as something that bothers her, then that is on her. If she IS bringing it up that it bothers her, then it is on HIM. I’m just saying that if she silently acquiesces to his behavior, then she is condoning his failure to change. I’m saying that SHE has a role in this too, and if she doesn’t like it, she should either stand up for herself and force the change or not blame HIM for HER decision to “suffer in silence.” That is a decision that SHE makes. And if poor communication, inequality and a lack of respect if so ingrained in this relationship, then separation is not the worst thing to “do for the children” because we are modeling a very BAD relationship for them.
Being in a relationship is difficult. Period. In addition, it is up to the individual to grow for themselves. It’s not Vanessa’s, or any other woman’s purpose in life to education / change / and make men better people. As the oppressed, as the women on the other end of misogyny, it’s never going to work. We could bitch all day long about the socks / underwear / etc all over the floor, but when we’re considered less than human, no one hears us. Sometimes, not even other women. It’s not the role of the oppressed to change the minds of our oppressors. Period. Our goals / purposes / etc / are unique to all of us. Maybe its to stop environmental destruction, child abuse, be a painter / artist / whatever. All women are unique in their life. Dealing with BS comes with the territory of being a woman in this patriarchy. It doesn’t mean we have to take it in our homes. But it usually means we do. And, it doesn’t mean we have to educate our partners. Though we usually do. The point is, that every woman has the right to choose how much to do or not do. It’s simply NOT our responsibility. We each have a greater purpose than to attempt to change one man. And, frankly, we’ll never change him. Only he can change himself. Whether we have the patience to wait is an entirely different question. Men will more likely listen to other men than to any woman. That’s patriarchy. That’s misogyny.
The problem with your argument is that you treat a generalized problem as individual failure or an isolated incidence. In our society (as in most others), women are conditioned to be passive and not show any sort of aggression (like telling someone off for leaving the socks out), while men on the other hand get primed to be agentic and aggressive (ask for a pay raise). Even if you’re consciously on the left side of the political spectrum (think men and women should be equal for example), your implicit attitudes are probably very sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. because your brain is malleable and gets wired to make short-cuts if you primarily see women doing housework (in commercials, watching adults when you were a child) or if you primarily see young black men on the news for crime. These implicit attitudes are pervasive and have to be called to awareness to be combatted (e.g. If you hire a manager, look at gender identifying items like name AFTER making the decision, don’t look at resumes when tired or rushed). MOST women will avoid confrontation, not because they’re childish or incompetent, but because they have been primed their whole lives to avoid confrontation and if they cross gender lines, they receive harsh social punishment. Don’t dismiss an issue that an entire population faces as individual failure. When you ask Vanessa to be confrontational about socks, you’re asking her to be OUTSTANDING. Of course, I would love for more women to stand up to gender stereotypes, but blaming a woman for not doing so is victim blaming. The fault lies in our society and that’s where we need to make changes first and foremost.
It’s a trap: “nudge” your husband to pick up his socks and do his share around the house and you’re a horrible screeching nag. Put up with it without complaint, and you’re “choosing” to accept the status quo. Either way, someone (like K) is going to say it’s the woman’s fault, not the man’s, and IF ONLY she would deal with this like an adult….
Have you considered that, although the work she does is important, he has financial power that she does not? Leaving (or being left) often has consequences for female partners that it does not for males, particularly when you consider the gender gap in wages, and the fact that she no doubt has less experience because she’s been out of the workforce taking care of their kids.
(As a side note, can you imagine how a guaranteed basic income would liberate women to stand up for themselves in unsatisfactory partnerships?)
She’s his wife, not his mommy. Too many women are just tired of dealing with a lazy spouse on top of everything else. It’s not her job to “fix” him. It’s his.
Reblogged this on contemplativemusictherapist and commented:
Well written and thoughtful.
Thank you for writing this. You are more perceptive than most guys I know.
You’re not a misogynist, just a below average husband. Why get married if that’s your attitude toward life with your wife? You don’t need to “Try” to change. You simply do. There’s no medical condition that needs to be overcome. You’re lazy for leaving clothes on the floor. You’re selfish for eating the biggest piece of pizza. You’re thoughtless for assuming someone will drive you home when you’re drunk. I assume you treat everyone in your life as inferior. You come across as entitled and arrogant, but not a misogynist…as evidenced by your post seeking congratulations for your “courage” at recognizing your faults, yet with no indication that you’ve actually changed your ways.
Thank you! Agreed
No, that pretty much sounds like sexism. Nowhere does he mention that he’s treating other males the way he’s treating women/his wife. Furthermore, many of the issues he addresses are very specific to misogyny such as the conversations he had in the navy.
He doesn’t come off to me as someone who wants to be applauded for admitting he’s misogynistic (what???). Rather, he’s contemplating about his own wrongdoings and wants to make this issue salient to other men (which is applaudable, on the other hand).
It occurs to me that your denial of him being a misogynist stems from a denial that we have a problem with misogyny. Maybe your problem is how you define misogyny, because the examples he wrote about are very obviously an example of misogynist entitlement. A lot of people who argue that “feminism has fulfilled its purpose” and is therefore no longer needed, define sexism as hatred toward women. In that case, they only accept sexism when we speak about violence, rape, or degrading language and since those are isolated incidences (with exception maybe to the former), it seems to them that society is mostly equal. The problem with that is that sexism usually has little to do with hate. Sexism is not about hate, it is about superiority, dominance, and control. You can love a women very much and still think, she belongs in the kitchen. Sexism is not black and white, rape or equality. Sexism is subtle and it plays out as “girls are pretty”, “boys are smart.” “Women are underrepresented in the sciences, because their brains are not wired for analyzing.” “Women’s brains are wired for nurturing.” “Pink frilly dresses are what my daughter wants. If I denied them, I’d deny her personality.” “If my boy wants to play with Barbie, we’d have to compromise and get him a NASCAR Barbie.” “Women don’t get paid the same because they’re not as good at negotiating.” “I agree, nobody should rape, BUT [insert three paragraphs on what the victim did to provoke the perpetrator, who gets mentioned in one sentence at most].” “Back in the 50’s ‘people’ were so much happier with their marriages and divorce was almost not existent.” “She’s so stuck up, I gave her flowers and chocolate and she still chose that asshole over me.” “Bros before Hoes/MOB” “I hate my supervisor. She’s bossy.” “She’s just dating that guy because he has a lot of money.” “That girl is too fat to be on television. She’s a bad role model for our impressionable children.”
Sexism comes in many colors.
Agreed. I also didn’t read his post as seeking congratulation for recognizing his flaws.
Yes. Perfect. You hit the nail on the head.
It’s called self reflection, which one does (or should do) when a social issue is raised and brought to the fore. Social issues are everyone’s problems. He is reflecting on his hand in this issue. He has abilities not many people have, or practice often enough.
Thanks for this writing, for its honesty, depth, and courage. And thanks to your wife for being the other half of you.
Michael – Maybe you’re reacting to the word “Misogyny” but much of that is the undercurrent of Misogyny or “rape culture”. It’s not full blown outright hatred, no.
It’s kinda like saying you’re not a wife beater because you’ve never beat her but you go through your entire relationship making her believe that you will if she doesn’t please you.
There is a major undercurrent of hatred of women in this country (and many other countries have it worse, but that’s another discussion).
If you would not treat your male roomate the way you treat your wife, there’s a problem. If you wouldn’t automatically expect your roomate to drive you home, if you wouldn’t expect your roomate to clean up after you, if you wouldn’t expect sex for doing chores… but you do and expect these things of your female partner/GF/wife.. Then you need to look a bit deeper.
The sad thing is, he actually isn’t that unusual. But I appreciate him realizing he’s not being fair.
First steps, baby steps…good for you to recognize your behaviors and for voicing them. Now the hard work of change not just your change but showing the way and leading others and stepping up and speaking up. More baby steps but you’ll get somewhere and you can help others get there too.
Reblogged this on whisper down the write alley and commented:
worth reading, reflecting, and responding!
You just sound like a generally bad person. I wouldn’t want a friend much less a partner like you. I hope your journey of enlightenment continues. It is very hard, the same as overcoming lifelong racism.
Instead of writing to Nate, to congratulate him on his perceived achievements of recognizing his misogyny, and getting applauded for it, I’m writing to Vanessa. Vanessa, you are doing an awesome job with life and putting up with this guy, presumably for your children’s sake.
:Thanks for being a warrior woman:
Nate, instead of attempting to be attention seeking for your misogynistic ways, maybe you should just change them. And write about misogyny in a way that is going to make a difference. Maybe you should read some articles by Robert or Derrick Jensen.
And to me presenting his honest reflection of his journey is a way of writing about misogyny in a way that is going to make a difference. I don’t find his message to be “cookie seeking” at all. I wish more men would come forward and express an honest acknowledgement of their part in this, and I’d like you not to discourage them.
I’d like you to not discourage me in my message. I’m not discouraging him, I’m challenging him. Big difference.
I’m a SAHD, and with the exception of the drinking (we don’t drink), and the pizza (they always give me the biggest slice, but I have them choose), Nate sounds a lot like my wife. I love her. but she is entitled, lazy, and an extremely poor communicator – and there’s no way I’d consider her a misandrist. Nate, while I agree that some of your behaviors are obnoxious and need to change, you’re probably just a regular person in a marriage. Maybe you’re tired in your marriage and you guys need a vacation or a change – kids can be exhausting. You probably need to step it up and stop being so inconsiderate. But your acknowledgement of rape culture and the like at the end of the essay pretty much puts the kibosh on the idea that you’re a misogynist. So stop worrying about that and start doing the work.
You’re basically just denying that misogyny exists.
Way to totally misinterpret what s/he is saying then blow it up into an extreme.
“But your acknowledgement of rape culture and the like at the end of the essay pretty much puts the kibosh on the idea that you’re a misogynist. So stop worrying about that and start doing the work.” <— denial
I think it's funny how many people are telling him "oh, you're not a misogynist," as if they knew better about his own attitudes than he does. If he says he is a misogynist, it's probably because he is. What other incentive than wanting the evidence of misogyny to disappear, does someone have to tell a stranger who is admitting he is sexist that he is not sexist?
No, I’m not. I’m well aware of the misogyny that exists in the world, in America, and in people to varying degrees. Having some thoughts that may be attributed to the misogyny of society does not make one a misogynist. Cultural training needs to be reversed for many of us. But the work this guy needs to do sounds very little like it has anything to do with the gender of his mate and more like his inconsideration and self-absorption. It sounds like if he were married to a man he’d be exactly the same way. Taking the biggest piece of pizza, expecting others to drive you home, and dropping his clothes on the floor have nothing to do with gender – they are about immaturity and entitlement: the same immaturity and entitlement my wife enjoys. So, no, misogyny exists, and there’s a chance some of the reasons he does one or two of these things is because of an ingrained bias in society, but that doesn’t make him a misogynist and doesn’t invalidate my personal opinion that he’s just kind of a poor relationship partner in some ways.
Reblogged this on Romi Carrell Wittman and commented:
This is really powerful.
I can see how this would happen. Polarising the sexes happens a lot in the military, too. The amount of misogyny and bullshit I had to endure was amazing, so getting past that when you’re a veteran is remarkable. Always glad to hear from a fellow Cantabrigian, as well. It takes a lot of work to get past these things, so I’m hoping things work out well for you.
Reblogged this on dawnwards and commented:
Raising your own consciousness is a good thing, and perhaps some lasting good, some true change will come out of a terrible past few years for the killing and raping of women worldwide; standing clear-eyed and listening to #YesAllWomen is a start. Here’s one male blogger’s honesty about the convenient thinking-patterns of misogyny, and his understanding of the need to change. I hope he does.
This post makes me sick and everyone’s comments about how good it is simply demonstrate the insane perspective on relationships that so many of you have. You’re not a misogynist – you’re simply an insecure asshole. I’m not sure why this revelation deserves any praise.
You can be very “manly” without treating women like objects – only the insecure and simple minded guys can’t handle the full spectrum. It is your responsibility to care for your family without making them feel indebted to service you. You are a pathetic excuse for a father and husband – saying you will try is not good enough and stop blaming other people and circumstances for your shitty actions.
These are the kindest words I can find.
Interesting conversation Nate’s having with himself and very brave to share it. I’m not sure if the haters are just trolling for a flame war or if they have some serious issues they need to overcome in their lives………. kinda like the militant homophobic republican who gets busted for a secret same sex tryst at a hotel near the airport. “……. I’m angry because I was forced to look at myself in the mirror… boo boo.” One would think that a compassionate dialog would be better than calling someone a “insecure asshole” or “below average husband”. As a rotating shift worker I do my family’s laundry and before I can start, I too have to chase all my wife’s dirty clothes from all over the bed room and bathroom. For some reason my wife thinks I am the only one who can get the oil changed in the car or add air to the tires. Nobody is perfect, least of all me. I continually forget to load the dishwasher among other infractions. Both genders are guilty of taking the other for granted. Is it 50/50?!?!?!? Depends on the time of day and the two individuals involved. Should things be better? Definitely. Across the board but be careful about generalizing phrases like insecure asshole” or “below average husband” to just the male of the species. Those same phrases apply to the whole species. Each of us learned our roles from the people who raised us and who we grew up with. These roles can’t be changed in just one or two generations. Some are enlightened… most are not…. Things are slowly getting better, some say too slow. I would agree. There are a couple of billion humans taking each other for granted. Words like “insecure asshole” or “below average husband” won’t get the job done.
Nate has a seed germinating. I for one would rather nurture this seed.
Nate, you have a hot runner. Now, hand your wife an ice tea and have her teach you to do the laundry and tell her that it is now your job to do for the family. After you get that under your belt you can start doing the food shopping. I want updates or you are going on the dink list.
This guy got it right. I have the privilege of sharing my life with the best man on the planet. He’s an inconsiderate boob at times (and I’m an inconsiderate bitch at times), but he’s aware of it. He’s humble enough to admit when he’s wrong and decent enough to try to make amends. We’re the best of friends, the dorkiest of lovers, and we know that we’re neither of us perfect and we’re both in this together.
Nate, keep whacking away at it. You’re young–as long as you hold on to the awareness and keep working, you’ll get there.
Never forget–when you’re in a committed partnership, you’re in it together. Forgive, challenge, fight when it’s worth it, and never put pride before anyone’s well-being.
“You’re not a misogynist – you’re simply an insecure asshole. ” you act like these don’t go hand-in-hand.
Being aware and willing to learn is a big, BIG DEAL! I think we have not realized just how misogynistic this society is and we are the sleeper awakening. If we look at the atrocities against women in the middle east and Africa, we can see our own patriarchal roots. We can see it here in the rape culture and the expectations placed on women. We can do that disservice to ourselves. Asked, in a women’s group seminar I attended, to identify ourselves with the first description being the most important, we had a lot of answers but most went in this vein; I am a woman (100% of the attendees listed this), I am a wife, mother, sister daughter, housewife/real estate agent/flight attendant/doctor/educator. It was pointed out to us that no one’s first self-identifier was Human Being. There are not levels of humanity..not based on gender, color, belief or lack of same, sexuality or national origin. We are all, men and women, part of a species and our importance to that species is the same. Kudos for trying to grow.
Recognizing you’re a misogynist, and feeling kinda bad about it puts you a few steps ahead of most misogynists.
I applaud you for being honest. Change is never easy, especially when you’re confronted with a truth about yourself that makes you uncomfortable. The easy thing to do is to keep pretending it doesn’t exist. Except the problem with that is that it will keep hanging over you until you acknowledge it.
Admitting this in such a public way and opening yourself up to criticism from strangers does take courage. But acknowledging there is something wrong is the first step to change. Changing yourself is a process; an often difficult, frustrating and painful process. It’s worth it because you come out of it a better, stronger, and more insightful person than you were before. I know this because I’ve been through this “coming to terms” process myself. I hope that you don’t let some of the negative comments here discourage you from continuing down the road of change. Best of luck to you and I hope that you are able to make peace with your past, too.
Wow. Wife, whoever you are, slap yourself awake. I’m probably older than you by 20 years and I would N.E.V.E.R. put up with the way this guy treats you. Guy: good on you for fessing up. You know you’re a dinosaur, right?
Man treats his wife badly. Wife gets scolded for putting up with it, man gets praised simply for admitting he did it. This is a problem. I’m not saying this blog doesn’t deserve praise, but is putting down his wife really necessary? Why do we expect so much more from her than him?
Thank you for the honesty in this blog post. My son is a grad student at UCSB; graduates in two weeks. A very emotional time with the shootings. This is a conversation we all must have!
Wow. I found the responses just as interesting as the post itself. Especially the person who called his wife “entitled, lazy and a very poor communicator”. That sounds like divorce in adjectives there. I wonder what she thinks of you? I lived with my partner for 28 years. I learned a lot about myself, and him. We had good years and we had crap years. Taking the long view is essential in any relationship that you want to stay in. Recognizing that something is a problem is the first step, trying is everything, because none of us is perfect, ever. We are all flawed, all carry baggage, but we can all learn. That’s what I remember about him the most – he always came through for me, no matter how much of a battle it might be, he always came through, and I hope, he could say the same of me. Sometimes I had to be dragged kicking and screaming to see the error of my ways, sometimes he did, and we both, always came through. You will fall in and out of love with your partner many times over the course of a relationship, you will go through times of hardship, job loss, job change, life change, illness – but if you have staying power and the ability to change and grow that other person will become a part of yourself. My partner passed away 18 months ago believe me it’s like having a limb amputated.
very true hun…and im so srry for your lost.
thank you. I just realized the number of things I simply accepted as “my lot” because I am a woman, and a mother. My (almost) ex husband treated me like this, and there was never anything concrete I could point to and say, this. this is not okay. I grew up with an abusive step-father, and I internalized that I deserved to be treated as less than. That because I left my career to raise our family that my thoughts and feelings didn’t matter as much as my husband’s. I still am working on this, but it is entrenched pretty deeply. I worry how much of this I may have passed on to my daughters.
You are BRILLIANT, POWERFUL, and LIMITLESS. I know this because you are a human being with a human brain and I know you have potential that is I fathomable to you. I study psychology and you are not alone with that type of thinking. But try to become aware of the negative inner monologue you have. You probably talk to yourself in a way you would never talk to anybody else and it is probably a very abusive monologue. Try to become more aware of that negativity. Try to count every negative thought you have throughout the day. You will be surprised how many you have and when you get some practice, you will notice more and more bad thoughts. But once you become aware of them by counting them, you can make the decision to stop “no, I will not tell myself that I’m dumb right now. I am brilliant, powerful, and limitless, and with some effort, I can solve this problem” The negative thoughts become fewer and fewer and your mind becomes purified.
i worry as well.. ;[
Reblogged this on My Random Ruminations. and commented:
This guy just gets it…
I read this, tweeted it to Freshly Pressed and then had to walk away. I had to figure out why your post is so disturbing to me (and that’s without reading the comments). I finally realized that if you’re a misogynist, I am too or maybe neither of us are. Either way, I hope you get a wider audience to fuel the discussion. Thanks for putting this out there, Nate.
Ha! THAT has got to get you some! Guaran-damn-teed.
Maybe if we see sex as mutuality, growing out of a relationship based on shared division of labor, power, respect, responsibility and always worthy of consent, we’ll get somewhere. Keeping a house and raising kids is an overtime job – lots of overtime. It is a relentless string of drudgery and demands. Division of labor must be split and to always drink and expect your wife to drive home and drop crap everywhere absolutely reeks of privilege and disrespect for a partner. And not making a mess is not grounds for getting laid. It takes more than that to have a relationship cook on all burners – and nobody EVER owes anybody sex. Plus picking shit up shouldn’t be posturing for sex. It needs to come from respect for self and ones spouse. Break out of your man box. Communicate. Relate. Jump in and help with the drag that housework and parenting can be (sharing can make the lifting lighter and afford opportunities for more fun, in the process). You will transform your relationship and your life by respecting your partner and respecting yourself. And you will model how to be whole humans, capable of kick ass relationships to your kids. Everyone wins.
wowo..my dh doesnt get that i let him have the tv even if it mid my show or make the kids leave the room even though they r watching my little ponies. yes i treat my dh like a prince who doesnt own a kingdom. and last month he was sending pic of his penis to some lady from out of the usa. she thought they were together cause he sent her facebook pm “stickers:” with hearts and of course she sent nude pics back. i did it to him in a way. he lived alone..before he moved in w me and my oldest gurls. and my dh drops his dirty pants and socks in the bathroom and the bedroom floor too and im the magickal fairy who takes them down to the basket of dirty clothes in the basement. i do the housework. im the stay at home mom. i have guilt at 11p dog tired w a 21 month old who doesnt sleep well if the dishes are not done. i do them very tired standing at the kitchen sink. im a sahm. i dont “work” outside the house i never clock out. i will start doing dishes or sweeping upon getting up with out having gotten a shwoer or any food or coffee yet.. i wont see my dh freaking out because he doenst know what is going on at his job when he finally gets home. he works hard. works third shift and they are long hrs. he went from drinking on the streets at dead shows and phish shows and hippie get togethers to living alone in va w other former drunks in a orthford house they are called. and than when i found him again..he had moved to nc to get in to school. he couldnt find a job and school was not getting back to him. his student loans was only gonna be enough to pay for classes not enough for rent or gas in his car or food. so he panic after months and months and applying and no calls back and asked to move in w me and my gurls here in ct. he wasnt suppose to stay. i was gonna try to get him a job at one of the local casinos and a room to rent and wash my hands of it and him. but he stay. i got preggo. lost the baby. 6 months later after a almost break down, i was preggo again. we were in love and he said ok so i planned our wedding in a week and a half. only a few ppl came. everyone talked crap on me. wanted to know why i was pushing it. but i had two other gurls and i already went the whole not being being married but having kids and having a hospital social worker come in to see me mins after having a baby. “no we dont any or much money but we are ok. yes my mom is involved with me” . no more of this i thought. my dh and i had another baby 2012. she will be two end of july. that is 4. i feel like i trapped my dh daily. especially now after this sexing crap. he says he is happy. he says if he comes home and i didnt make him a plate for dinner or leave dirty dishs he is fine w it. i wish he knewn how much guilt i have over a messy house or messy sink at midnite. how tired i am. and how i think about how he feels or if this is fair to him. i wish he knew what a mystery his thinking or brain is to me. we dated when we were teen and he left to the rd after his mom died. last time i saw him was march 96. till may of 09. alot of year went by. he is how i stayed sane though two abusive bfs. anyhow he is outside doing yard work…while waiting for me. i wanted to go yard saling. i need shorts and t shirt for older gurls. hardy have any and hardy h ave cash to do it. o yes guilt. but the living room is a mess and i have a load of clothes to fold……
Girl, you need to do you! Stop worrying about him and take back your life! It’s yours! Fuck what other people say! Better unmarried and happy by yourself than giving up yourself for somebody else.
i would..but i need to gget a degree or a job..how the fuck would i support 4 kids..lol
NOT a partnership. No woman deserves such smug entitlement from a man. unacceptable.
Go back to school! Knowledge is power and going to school is self-empowering! You sure sound like you could use that!
i also dont want to just leave. i want to get in therapy w dh. nor am i perfect. im very difficult to deal too.
Stop putting yourself down! Why do you talk about yourself in a way you wouldn’t talk about others? It’s not your concern how easy you are to deal with. If they can’t handle it, you need different friends
I would post this at The ManKind Project or The ManKind Project USA on Facebook. Thank you very much for writing this. I think you could reach a lot of men at that site, OK? And if any of your men read this and feel lost, go to that site, perhaps you can find or create something of value for yourself, or find a local group.
Totally okay with me! Thanks for asking!
Self awareness is more important than labels. This piece illustrates that nicely. Well done.
Ok I read this whole thing and I’m a woman, so let’s get this out of the way…but how exactly is this being misogynist? I don’t really understand what point this man is trying to make because he didn’t sound misygynistic in any way from what I read here…
Misogynist entitlement? I don’t see how you don’t understand it. How do you define misogyny?
I really don’t agree with this. This man isn’t any more or less fault for being the product of what a man is suppose to assume and live , any more or less than his wife. And frankly men in the west have come a long way and feminism has treated so many men to not have a spine or a backbone and let the woman run the show, I’ve seen it way too many times. Having a big of an entitlement does not mean someone is misygynistic. How many times do I see women threaten their bfs or husbands and manipulate them and crying trying to get their way, this article does not mention how many mistakes women are making and how THEY feel entitled as well. If I was a guy, frankly if I was doing all sorts of things for her, emotionally and physically , financially supporting her, hell yes I would want sex and I would feel entitled to it, that doesn’t mean make a difference I still feel the same way if I’m a woman.
Sex is a huge part of a relationship, not just that a lot of people especially women do not seem to realize that men and women are built DIFFERENTLY when it comes to this. Just like women feel like they need the emotional and financial stability/security for a relationship to worth going, sex is vital for a man in the same way. We have to understand his biological upbringing and response. Men will get equally depressed and hurt from getting rejection from sex from a woman he loves in the same way a woman would feel if he rejects her emotional advances. I’m not speaking for every single human being out there, but this is just the GENERAL norm. I’m in no way saying men should be allowed to get sex from women whenever they want obviously, but this whole thing that “oh its misogynistic” just because he feels like he is entitled for her to have sex with her is complete bullshit. , I don’t believe this man is selfish or bad or being misogynistic,
Having said that, if I was a guy bringing in all the money , if my lady is at home not doing anything, not cleaning the house or preparing food for me, for sure I would be mad. And that has NOTHING TO DO with the fact that she’s a woman or I expect women roles, in fact if the roles were switched, and she was the one working, and I wasn’t doing anything in the house, I would be just as much at fault. would believe that the other person who is working hard to support me financially, they are entitled to simple things that relationships have, which is sex, love and the ability to openly talk about things to each other without keeping things in. And yes I WOULD FEEL ENTITLED TO RECEIVE these things, this isn’t misogynistic, this is called being human and wanting a reward for an achievement, it is not from selfishness if you truly love someone, but as individuals it is normal to receive our desires, a combination of give and take.
I agree. I don’t understand how like 90% of this is misogyny. Perhaps it’s selfish and unthoughtful but not misogynistic…
It’s misogynist because his behavior stems from male entitlement rather than selfishness or laziness. Selfishness and laziness may play a part in it but he clearly states that he behaves this way because he feels entitled to it simply on the grounds of being a man. There’s not much to misinterpret. He says exactly why he thinks and acts the way he does.
I agree. I don’t understand how like 90% of this is misogynistic. It may be rude and unthoughtful but not misogynistic. I see no hatred.
shit. Didnt mean to post this one.
I’m actually surprised there are no hate-mongers and the few critics here behave more or less civilized. I guess this comes from a man speaking about a feminist issue. I guess that may be another sign of patriarchy. When a woman speaks up, she gets rape threats, when a man speaks up, the issue is taken seriously. I guess we need to convert more men into feminists. This is a start.
Also, you might wanna consider getting this blog entry on upworthy, tumblr, and reddit. More people need to read it.
This article is pure nonsense. And the amount of reassurance bullshit in the comments is sickening. You idiots live in an echo chamber where you don’t hear any disagreeing voices. Misogyny doesn’t exist. You entitled spoiled western women have so many privileges yet you still whine so much. Please realize how good you have it when the greatest difficulty you face is dudes gawking at you (which happens if you’re not butt ugly which many feminists fortunately are)
Ahh! Rush Limbaugh! I was waiting for you!
Thank you for this. I feel hopeful when I see people realizing their faults and trying to change for the better. Best of luck to you and your (very patient and for sure very loving) wife! 🙂
Response to man who admits he’s misogynistic, but “trying to change”: “good for you, man! Yay!”
Response woman who admits misogyny exists and tries to change it: “Make me a sandwich, feminist bitch.”
It must be so hard to be you, Nate.
I hope you realize that you are not only are you misogynist but you’ve probably raised your children to be as well. & I don’t blame you. I blame everyone around you for allowing it.
I beg you to raise your children to be equals and to not only expect it, but to demand it. Because as woman most of the time, that is what we are forced to do. We are forced to DEMAND respect.
Just food for thought.
Reblogged this on Emma's Got Ideas.
You’re a great person. Awareness is a huge step, and not only for men. Both genders have been raised in these cultures! Thank you for the post.
This article is something I think all men can benefit / learn from.
View at Medium.com
This article is something I think all men can benefit / learn from.
Great post! So glad that you put yourself out there! Way to strive for change!
Your honesty and open account of yourself are refreshing to see. Self reflection is integral to making worthwhile changes and it sounds like you are on the path to becoming the man you (and your wife) would like to be. My husband wrote a blog on this topic to men, from a man’s perspective. Maybe you’ll find it insightful. Either way, thank you for sharing and especially, for trying to empathize with something you don’t understand from within. http://sharissecoulter.wordpress.com/2014/05/30/like-a-boss-senorita/